22-250 ammo.

[sedwick]

I've been hunting with a rem 700 ADl 22-250 for about 15 years and have been very pleased. The gun is great, it seems like you only have to aim it at a deer and it shoots it in the heart every time. My question is are the new 55 grn. ballistic tip rounds as good as the old full metal jacket hollow points?

[carnivore]

Is it even legal to use full metal jacket where you hunt?

[jb1buckmaster]

I was more concerned about the 22/250 . Dude - that is a varmit gun not ment for deer.

I know you have something to brag about. But from what I have heard and experienced - I would NEVER USE A 22/250 FOR DEER.

That round was ment for hunting groundhogs at long distance. It travels at a very high speed - with a very light bullet. As soon as it hits a twig - it explodes.

A deer is a very noble creature , deserving of a proper harvest. With a poorly placed shot - that deer is going to suffer a agonizing death.
Try going to something bigger in caliber or leave it at home.

Reminds me of a article in Guns and Ammo. Had in bold type - THIS GUN IS NOT MENT FOR HUNTING DEER!

The same is true for a .220 SWIFT.

[texassniper]

Let them say what they want but i know ppl that have taken nummerous deer with the 22-250 and they have all dropped on the spot. use the full metal jakets

[progers]

A deer is a very noble creature , deserving of a proper harvest. With a poorly placed shot - that deer is going to suffer a agonizing death.

The part that dude is over looking is that a poorly placed shot will cause this from any gun, no matter the size!

[KwackWacker]

Well, first off, that little varmint picker is a tad small to be using in the deer woods. Second, the old full metal jacket hollow point coming out of that thing would not leave an exit wound for a blood trail. Ballistic tips aren't made to perform like a hollow point. They are made to reduce the deformation that the tips of bullets get from sliding into the chamber of a rifle. They also are "supposed" to better accuracy, but unless your shooting a match grade rifle with the highest quality optics from a target bench, I don't think you're going to see any difference. I've never see 1/4 of an inch make much of a difference in the woods. Just my opinion.

[DocHolladay]

i use a .270 and switched from Winchester Super X 130's to Hornady ballistic tip 140's early this year. i went from a 2-2.5 in group down to 1-1.5 in. groups. i like the tighter groups but as Kwack says a 1/4 in. doesnt matter as long as you hit a vital. as for the .22/250 i dont think it is a deer round either, but i dont work for the state that you hunt in and its not my decision. most states go for the ft/lb. of energy. i think most states require that the rifle have 800-900 ft/lbs. of energy at any distance. Tennessee's smallest caliber to hunt deer is .24 caliber.

[MissPriss]

A 22/250 was my first gun. My father put me to hunting with it because I was young and small. That first time I went huntin with it I killed a Buck! I loved it But the next year I had to stop hunting with it because where I am from they are not legal to deer hunt wtih. I ALL ways shot with ballistic tips they are great! You should shot with them also. You need to find out where you hunt if that gun is even legal to deer hunt with.

[carnivore]

You can hunt with any center fire cartridge for deer in missouri.

[florida]

isn't the 22-250 the flatest shooting round available?

I agree the bullet may be a little small for deer, but wouldn't the energy of the higher velocity make up for it?

I mean, momentum = mass * velocity

[progers]

It's all about shot placement!

[T-bird]

Just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it right --- IMO there's just too much margin for error when shooting a light .22cal that was designed for varmints, even when using premium bullets. As hunters and sportsmen (and women), we owe our very best effort to the game we pursue to make a quick, clean, ethical kill.

To loosely paraphrase the Old Testament patriarch, Job, "as for me and my house, we will shoot the .30cal" --- lol

[progers]

Are you saying that it would be "morally" ethical to deer hunt with a 30 Caliber Carbine (M1) then?

I would be willing to be the farm that a shot to the head with a 22-250 would kill a deer alot faster than a shot in the side with a bow!

That being said, which is more ethical?

I shoot a 7mag and they sometimes run 50 yards! Maybe I should start using a 30 Cal, also? Hmmmm?

If it is legal to deer hunt with a certain rifle, then it is most definetly ethical to hunt with it, also! If you think that it is unethical, then write Congress!

[KwackWacker]

Florida, The .22/250 is an extremely flat shooting gun and it carries a lot of energy with it, but you can't really rely on the energy from a little bullet to knock down a deer. 85% of the time you would probably be okay and make a quick kill, but that 15% can make a big difference. Especially with a larger deer, say up north somewhere. A large deer might just suck that energy up and run for a couple of hundred yards without leaving a blood trail. Without a bloodtrail, it's up to good luck and great tracking skills to find that deer. As for the "momentum = mass x velocity" you're right again, but that equation can be kind of tricky. Here's an example:
A .22/250 bullet at 45 grains flying at 3500 FPS has an energy of 157,500 grain/FPS. If you go to a .243 bullet at 100 grains flying at 3000 FPS you get an energy of 300,000 grain/FPS. That's qutie a bit more than what you get from the .22/250. and the bullet isn't much bigger. Look at it like this, if you got hit by a tennis ball flying 80 MPH and then you got hit by a baseball flying 69 MPH, which would hurt more? I'm betting niether one is going to feel good, but the baseball is going to leave a lot bigger bruise.


As for the ethics of hunting with a small caliber rifle, as long as you have confidence in your marksmanship, you know where to place the bullet, and it's legal in your state, I believe your being ethical. However, If there is ANY doubt in your mind about any of the above and you still take out that rifle, your ethics just flew out the window.

[T-bird]

Here we go again ---- this topic has been debated around campfires, in magazines, on TV, and everywhere else and I'm quite certain there'll never be any real resolution.

Yes, it's possible to kill a deer (or elephant for that matter) with a .22 long rifle, but that doesn't make it right.

And yes, the .30carbine IMO would be alright at limited ranges (though I wouldn't shoot it).

And yes, shot placement is crititical, regardless of the caliber you shoot (the heart/lung shot, NOT head shots --- those are horrific and just asking for trouble).

My point is, that perfect shot placement doesn't always occur under hunting conditions. Even the best of us occasionally misjudge the wind or distance, or the deer moves as we squeeze the trigger, etc. But no one with reasonable intelligence would fail to believe that you're more likely to put a deer down with a bad shot from a .270 or .30-06 than a poorly placed shot from a .220 Swift or .22-250. The heavier bullet from the larger caliber will simply penetrate deeper and do more physiological damage. It's simple physics. My .30cal comment was just a preference on my part. Most calibers from the .243 Winchester on up make adequate deer rounds. I just don't think anything UNDER .243cal is.

[progers]

Me personally, I would NEVER deer hunt with one! The only thing that I'm debating is the comment of it not being ethical. After reading what Kwack wrote then I will have to rephrase my statement.

If you are a marksman and know your gun inside and out and how it shoots and all there is to know about ballistics and vitals, then it would not be unethical to hunt with one! If you are a beginner, then get the biggest, heavest gun you can find and start learning how and where to drop deer and then you can move on to something lighter!

Yes, the heaver guns will do more damage and will drop deer in their tracks with a body shot at 200 yards! I do it all the time with my 308 and 7mag! But, it almost never happens with my 243! Also, at 200 yards with the 243, if the deer is slightly quartering, most of the time it will not pass threw!

I would say that if you hunted with a 22-250, a head shot would be the only way to go! I don't know personally, never hunted with one but, it just seems logical!

As far as the .30 carbine, I have hunted with one of them and I will tell you to NOT do it! I shot a doe broadside at 45 yards and never found her! That gun is made for killing humans, not deer! It doesn't have what it takes to penatrate deer! Leave that one at home! I do!

[florida]

I am impressed. Concern for the animal does make you a sportsman.

I will probably never end up hunting with a 22-250, I am just interested in the gun. I saw a Remington 700 Synthetic, heavy barrell, 22-250 for about $800 one time and I have been thinking about making it my next rifle purchase. I would probably just use it to plink around with though, I imagine the kick wouldn't be too bad.

Anyway, for now I am hunting with a 30-06, so no worries....

[progers]

One things for sure, we all here ARE ethical hunters! And that's what makes this place so great!

[cynic]

This will be my two cents worth on deer hunting the southeast. I own a 22-250 would and will carry it anywhere. You guys talk about ethics and shooting. no matter what cartridge you shoot, a urinate poor shot is going to leave an animal suffering. A bigger bullet only gives those of you that can't place a shot in the right spot a security blanket. If you have to worry about caliber size more than a good shot please stay out of the woods. I own many other calibers in varying guns from single shot to auto loading. I prefer a 7mm/08..but am not afraid to neck or head shoot 200yrds with my 22-250 I have never lost one yet.

[florida]

cynic, where do you hunt in Tallahassee? I am new to the area.

[cynic]

I actually live in gadsden cnty. and have a couple of land owners that let me hunt as well as my own property. I have 15 acres surrounded by large tracks that I have a 2 acre food plot on. I also go to Americus Ga to a 4 day hunt every year. If you bow or muzzleload you have several options in this area. Joe Budd is my favorite, limited hunters by drawing and Ocklochnee River both of which are only open Fri Sat Sun. I have a stigma about hunting in the forest with people that I do not know so I DON'T.

[florida]

yeah, private land is definitely better if you have the connections. I don't know anyone with land here though, so I have been looking at Apalachicola.

[nodoes123]

man get a bigger gun or something you might drop deer in it tracks with that gun sometimes but one slight move and that deer will die as painful as it gets

[progers]

Bro, that could happen with any gun! A deer can move and make you get a bad shot in with any gun! As it has been said MANY times on this forum, it's all about shot placement. If you think that he should hang that gun up because of it's size and a deer could make a move and cause a bad shot then, bows should be wrong to use, also! It's all about how good you are with what you are shooting!

[Joel]

Im new here but the US Army uses 22 cal 223 to kill people and the avg. man is about 200 bl. the avg TXs deer is aout 90bl field dressed I have made shots up to 500 yards with a 22-250 and if they ran it was only about 10 feet . iv shot deer with my 7 mag find a blood trail and nerve find the deer. I hand load a 55gr HPBT and graphed it at 3985 ft per sec. and it leaves a hole bigger than my 30-06

[progers]

Welcome Joel!

Yea, the 223 is a BAD little round. It does serious damage. Jello-s everything in its path!

[misplaced texan]

I have to agree with those who take the side of shot placement over rifle size. Although you have a greater margin for error with the larger rifle, bad shots can still happen with ANY rifle or bow.

Ethics comes in when you are 100% sure of your ability and your equipment...AND your ability WITH your equipment. If you feel comfortable with a given rifle, and you shoot well with it...USE it. Take away ONE of these and hunting with a darn Bazooka aint gonna make a difference.

[Allan]

I have killed deer with my 223 with 55 grain fmj's. They work real good. I would stay with the full metal jackets, or just try a box of ballistic tips and let us know how they worked.

[Lower]

This will be my two cents worth on deer hunting the southeast. I own a 22-250 would and will carry it anywhere. You guys talk about ethics and shooting. no matter what cartridge you shoot, a urinate poor shot is going to leave an animal suffering. A bigger bullet only gives those of you that can't place a shot in the right spot a security blanket. If you have to worry about caliber size more than a good shot please stay out of the woods. I own many other calibers in varying guns from single shot to auto loading. I prefer a 7mm/08..but am not afraid to neck or head shoot 200yrds with my 22-250 I have never lost one yet.

Neck shot will drop them in their tracks everytime. I have alot of different areas i can hunt if im hunting open land i take my 250 if i am hunting heavy brush i carry my 300 mag. I prefer the 22-250 and my 12 point i got this year was takin with my 250 at 300 yds and never even took a step. I quarted a doe with my 300 mag at 150yds and had to blood trail her for about 800 yds.

[Allan]

Lower your absolutely right about that, a deer shot in the neck is pretty much a dead one.

[hunter12]

Florida, The .22/250 is an extremely flat shooting gun and it carries a lot of energy with it, but you can't really rely on the energy from a little bullet to knock down a deer. 85% of the time you would probably be okay and make a quick kill, but that 15% can make a big difference. Especially with a larger deer, say up north somewhere. A large deer might just suck that energy up and run for a couple of hundred yards without leaving a blood trail. Without a bloodtrail, it's up to good luck and great tracking skills to find that deer. As for the "momentum = mass x velocity" you're right again, but that equation can be kind of tricky. Here's an example:
A .22/250 bullet at 45 grains flying at 3500 FPS has an energy of 157,500 grain/FPS. If you go to a .243 bullet at 100 grains flying at 3000 FPS you get an energy of 300,000 grain/FPS. That's qutie a bit more than what you get from the .22/250. and the bullet isn't much bigger. Look at it like this, if you got hit by a tennis ball flying 80 MPH and then you got hit by a baseball flying 69 MPH, which would hurt more? I'm betting niether one is going to feel good, but the baseball is going to leave a lot bigger bruise.


As for the ethics of hunting with a small caliber rifle, as long as you have confidence in your marksmanship, you know where to place the bullet, and it's legal in your state, I believe your being ethical. However, If there is ANY doubt in your mind about any of the above and you still take out that rifle, your ethics just flew out the window.

the 243 federal 80gr ammo has only 90 more fpe at 300 yards!!!!!

[KwackWacker]

Speed isn't the important factor in the equation. Mass is the key. The bullet is traveling only 90 fps faster, but it weighs almost twice as much.

[legei]

Well from my experience I had wonderful luck with my 22-250. Especially Deer Hunting with it...Never missed one yet. I even Moose hunt with it. Drop it on the spot every time. I have to agree with the other guy if you know ur gun and are comfortable with it then use it. I don't care what caliber it is, its gonna be deadly. Even if you do miss the shot and wound the deer who gives a crap. Where I come from the deer are so over populated. They don't kill enough deer during hunting season. I am an animal control officer and you wouldn't belive how many people are killed every year cause of deer jumping in front of a vechicle. The number of deer just keep rising. So keep on shooting the deer!

[Bonefishfly]

Ok, I know this is a while coming given the start of this topic, but here's how I see the truth of the 22-250: The fact of the matter is that it is not a little, wimpy groundhog gun meant for children in August. Yes, it works very well on varmints at long range, but it packs a hell of a punch. But don't be fooled, a soft tip round from the 250 will blast through any part of the deer with lethal effect. Forget the head and neck, shoot for the shoulder. It will NOT bounce off, deflect off ribs, etc. A shot in the shoulder is going to fragment, but it is going to tear up anything inside just like a piece of lead traveling at 3600fps should. If you can take the head off a groundhog at 200yds, then you can pick your shot on a deer quite nicely.

The only caveat is that one has to be accurate. It is definitely not true that only .30s can take down deer humanely. They do that, but their great strength is that one only has to aim at the "furry part" to get a kill. The 250 is a little different...you need to hit the lungs or the shoulder joint. No head shots, it will likely result in a miss, and is unnecessary. If you haven't shot your rifle since the deer you shot at (and think you hit) last year, leave the 250 at home. But if you are comfortable and get off a clean shot, that deer is definitely going down.

Remember, an adult male deer weighs what, about the same as an adult male human? It doesn't take a cannon to kill that sized creature. If you are good with the 250, light em up. If not, stick to the .30s that allow a little more margin for error.

[KwackWacker]

They do that, but their great strength is that one only has to aim at the "furry part" to get a kill.

You seriously believe that?

[deerhunter4life]

You can aim at the furry part with any gun and kill a deer more then likely, it's just a matter of how long it is going to suffer. A gut shot deer with a 22-250 or a .300 is going to suffer a while before it dies. Shot placement is key no matter what caliber firearm you are using.

[GMFWoodchuck]

Well, I think as long as you use well made bullets (barnes TSX and the like)you should be okay. Even FMJ might be okay as long as you are a good tracker and a good shot. But like everyone says, make sure that you are not using varmint ammunition. Hit a rib and that deer will be gone forever only to die a nasty death. At least a FMJ would puncture the lungs and or the heart so that the animal would die quickly enough whether or not you found it. But I would (I might myself, not sure yet though. I will do a little ballistics testing of my own.) try the well made bullets with the 22-250. If a little pip-squeak like the .458 win mag can drop elephants without a problem I don't see why the 22-250 can't. (compare the size of the bullets to a elephant and compare the size of a .22 bullet to a little deer)

If you are not sure that you can absolutely hit the lungs or the heart on a deer even with a .300 ultra rem mag, you should not be taking the shot. My personal experience with this is a friend of my Uncle's. He shot a buck with a 12 gauge slug. First he blew the leg off. Then as he was chasing it he sounded like a one-man war missing shot after shot at this poor deer. That is until he actually knocked it out by blowing one of his antlers off. He slit it's throat to kill it. I'd take my chances by giving a 12 year old crack shot a .22 rimfire before I ever step in the woods with this guy again. Actually, we told him not to come back. (My parents owned the property.)

[one_eye]

The .223 (or 5.56 NATO) has been used in combat for years - now into its fifth decade! It has been proven effective on dangerous quarry - our enemies - with little discussion regarding its lethality. When compared to the .22-250, the military .223 is a smaller cartridge, usually with lighter bullets, and generally topped with iron sights. A well-tuned deer rifle chambered in .22-250 with a properly mounted scope and quality ammunition is deadly medicine. One more point...I see too many men, often big men, shooting large calibers so poorly due to recoil-induced flinching that their rifles are rendered next to useless. For southern whitetail hunting, I would take a .22-250 Remington in the hands of a well-practiced 16 year-old over a .300 Winchester in the hands of 50 year-old weekend warrior any day.

[KwackWacker]

I would take a .22-250 Remington in the hands of a well-practiced 16 year-old over a .300 Winchester in the hands of 50 year-old weekend warrior any day.

Which is to say that a .22 can kill an elephant if you shoot him in the right place, which has been said about 10 times above, which I am tired of hearing. This thread has run it's course over the past FIVE years. I believe we can finally shut her down. CLOSED.