Another question about paper tuning.

[silvergts1998]

I let my proshop paper tune my bow. I have a 27" draw. When he shoots it he gets good bullet holes. Now if I shoot it I don't get bullet holes. My proshop guy has about a 30"-32" draw on him. So with that being said, I take it "I" have to paper tune it and not him because results will be different?

Also how accurate are the marks on the PSE that show height and center on the bow?

Thanks in Advance.

[DocHolladay]

I let my proshop paper tune my bow. I have a 27" draw. When he shoots it he gets good bullet holes. Now if I shoot it I don't get bullet holes. My proshop guy has about a 30"-32" draw on him. So with that being said, I take it "I" have to paper tune it and not him because results will be different?

Also how accurate are the marks on the PSE that show height and center on the bow?

Thanks in Advance.

Click HERE for PSE's tuning instructions. It is a PDF and you will need to go to page 6 for paper tuning. Then after paper tuning, they talk about a simplified walk back tune to fine tune your bow. I would suggest skipping the paper tuning and just do the walk back tuning. They also suggest that when adjusting the horizontal flight, to adjust the bottom limb bolt. Dont do that, move your rest up or down depending on where it hits the tape. Up for high shots and down for low shots. This is all done with 1/8" adjustments. If 1/8" is to much, then use 1/16" adjustments.

[silvergts1998]

Thanks Doc!

So is paper tuning not the end all be all?

My proshop guy also told me that everything being symetrical/square/level does not always mean you will be shooting straight. Is that true?

One other question: The further I go back the better I get for a bullet through type rip I get when I try to paper tune. If I am 6 feet away, I don't always get a good tear. Now if I am 12 feet away, the tear becomes better and further back better. Why is that?

[DocHolladay]

Thanks Doc!

So is paper tuning not the end all be all?

My proshop guy also told me that everything being symetrical/square/level does not always mean you will be shooting straight. Is that true?

One other question: The further I go back the better I get for a bullet through type rip I get when I try to paper tune. If I am 6 feet away, I don't always get a good tear. Now if I am 12 feet away, the tear becomes better and further back better. Why is that?

There are several ways to tune a bow. Some people prefer one thing, some prefer another. I like walk back. You get the most out of a properly tuned bow. Better arrow flight, more accuracy and I also believe that you can gain at least a couple fps.

A bow square is like a bore sighter for a bow. It gets you close, but you have to fine tune it.

I am gonna say that it is your arrow. Some take a little longer to stabilize than others. It may also be the arrow spine.

That is one reason I dont paper tune. You will worry yourself to death trying to get a bullet hole with a bow that wont make one.

[silvergts1998]

Thanks Doc!

So is paper tuning not the end all be all?

My proshop guy also told me that everything being symetrical/square/level does not always mean you will be shooting straight. Is that true?

One other question: The further I go back the better I get for a bullet through type rip I get when I try to paper tune. If I am 6 feet away, I don't always get a good tear. Now if I am 12 feet away, the tear becomes better and further back better. Why is that?

There are several ways to tune a bow. Some people prefer one thing, some prefer another. I like walk back. You get the most out of a properly tuned bow. Better arrow flight, more accuracy and I also believe that you can gain at least a couple fps.

A bow square is like a bore sighter for a bow. It gets you close, but you have to fine tune it.

I am gonna say that it is your arrow. Some take a little longer to stabilize than others. It may also be the arrow spine.

That is one reason I dont paper tune. You will worry yourself to death trying to get a bullet hole with a bow that wont make one.

I am using a pretty stiff arrow. It's a 400 and even went to the easton 340. I don't understand why someone would want an arrow that wasn't stiff? Does a stiffer arrow take more time to recover?

I think you are right about paper tuning. My PSE bows shoot the arrow so fast that it may take about 25 feet for it to correct. If I am about 20 ft away i get a bullet hole, if I am closer to the paper it not a bullet hole.

I am going to try the plumb bob deal and see what happens.

[DocHolladay]

Each arrow manufacturer has an arrow chart that will tell you what arrow you need to shoot. It bases this on your draw length and draw weight. You need to follow this. It gets you optimum flight chracteristics.

[silvergts1998]

Thanks Doc. I just realized my arrow is not the correct ones I should be using based off my chart I have. Dang nabit! I just spent money on two dozen arrows!

[DocHolladay]

If you bought these from your "proshop" on their recommendation, I would take them back and demand the right ones for being pointed in the wrong direction. If you chose them, suck it up....lol. I dont know which arrows you bought or should have, so I cant say if they will do right or not. Like I said, an arrow that is spine a little stiff or a little "loose" can work. You may just pull your hair out paper tuning it.

[silvergts1998]

I went to the Easton site and it appears it's telling me I am suppose to shoot alloy?

Here's my specs.

27" draw
Hard cam
70 lbs
5-1/2 brace height
26" arrow, which I am not sure if it should be a little longer or not.
PSE Omen

So what other choices do I have in carbon? My proshop gave me the Easton flatline 340 carbon which doesn't list it on Easton's site based on the above specs.

[silvergts1998]

Well after about 4 hours of continuos shooting and adjusting, I got both my bows shooting right. Thanks Doc for telling me to skip the paper tuning. The Arrows I was using where fine I think. I have the Bass Pro carbon express 4000 which are a siff spined arrow and the easton flatline 340 which is also a stiff spine arrow. Both weigh the same in grains. I think what my problem was is that I was so focused on paper tuning and getting that perfect bullet through paper. I am not sure how my proshop guy did it but I think it had something to do with his stance, draw style and basically just the way he handles the bow differently than I do. I spent hours trying to get a bullet hole in paper and could never get it unless I was like 25 feet away which in paper tuning world I don't think you're suppose to go beyond 10 or 12 feet max. I followed the instructions on PSE's page that Doc recommended me to read. I skipped the paper tuning part since I was not going to get a good tear with my set up I have. I was more concerned with getting my arrow more vertically lined up the further I went back. By doing this I knew the arrow was flying straight and it was just a matter of raising or lowering the pins. I shot at 20 yards and was grouping within 1-2". That was good enough for me. Went to 30 yards and shot with the 20 yard pin. Groups where tight and centered below the bullseye like they should be Adjusted my 30 yard pin and hitting dead on. Went back to 40 yards and the arrows where grouping on the vertical line. I adjusted the pins and then did the same on the 50 yard.

So with all that being said above, I now come to realize that paper tuning can actually throw you off as much as it can help you out. My bow is shooting the arrows so fast that I am never going to get a good tear at 6ft-10ft. Arrow doesn't completely stabilize until a little out. Now I think my proshop guy got a good bullet hole in the paper he shot because he adjusted the bow at close range where the arrow may make a clean hole but at the cost of not being accurate from further distance back. Not sure if i made sense in what I wrote but what i did above seemed to do the trick. By the way I shoot at a 1.5" dot from 20, 30, 40, 50 & 60 yards. I always try to group them at least 1" group from 20-30 yards and 2" further back. I am just particular that way and may have OCD when it comes to being that accurate.

Just wanted to follow up on this thread. By the way here's my 2nd deer so far this year. Another doe, but still have my Buck tag! Processed it myself. Getting better at it.

[DocHolladay]

Good job on the tuning and deer. I looked at Eastons chart and it says you need a 400 in the carbons and the Bass Pro arrows call for a 3000.

[silvergts1998]

Good job on the tuning and deer. I looked at Eastons chart and it says you need a 400 in the carbons and the Bass Pro arrows call for a 3000.

Thanks Doc for your help!
Am I right about what I wrote on the paper tuning?

[DocHolladay]

99% of it is right. I think, no matter how fast your bow is, it can be paper tuned though. You just need the right arrows. Just from me talking to more experienced archers, a slightly high left tear is preferred over a bullet hole for some reason... still havent figured that one out. Just so you know, I have never paper tuned a bow I owned because of the headaches I have heard of.

Just so you know, there is a post on here that I still havent found that gives pictures about tuning... I will find it though.

[DocHolladay]

FOUND IT!!!!!!!! 18 pages later

FLIGHT TUNING

To begin flight tuning you will first need a large enough back stop to make a cross that is at least 10" in size.
With a level, make a horizontal line through the center of the target and then another vertical line through the center of the horizontal line.
Make the line large enough to be visible from 30 yards but not overly large. Start at 10 yards from the target.

Aiming at the Horizontal line, adjust the sight so that you are hitting the line.

Now move back to 15 yards.
Using the same pin, shoot at the horizontal line.
Where is the arrow?
If it is high then adjust the rest down 1/32" at a time until the arrow hits the line again. If it is low, move your rest up 1/32" until you hit the line.

Now move back to 20 yards and shoot again using the same pin that you used at 10 yards.
Adjust in the same manner as you did at 10 yards. Move back to 30 and again shoot the horizontal line.
Make adjustments as were done at 20.





Now you are ready for vertical tuning.
Moving back up to 10 yards aim at the vertical line and adjust the sight to hit that line.
Move back to 20 yards and shoot that same line.
If you are left, move the rest to the right 1/32" until you hit the line.
If you are right, then move the rest to the left 1/32" until you hit the line.

Move back to 30 and again shoot the vertical line.
Make adjustments as were done at 20.



You are now flight tuned.
This tune may be right on for your broadhead but you must finish with a broadhead to know for sure.

Repeat the horizontal and vertical line shots at 20 and 30 yards with your broadhead. Adjust the rest as necessary to make the arrow hit the lines.

A broadhead is a great fine tuning tool and will allow those with less than perfect form to better flight tune their set ups because of the exaggeration that the broadhead will cause when tune defects exist.


Before you begin shooting, you will need to check your broadhead equipped arrows.
After installing your broadheads, make sure they are perfectly straight on the shaft.
This can be done by spinning the arrow on a flat counter while checking for any broadhead wobble.
You can also use a commercially made spin check tool.

Below is a graph that explains flaw and correction methods



Just so you know, this calls for moving the nock point up and down for high and low groups. Move the rest instead, it is easier.