Bow Hunting

jbarsness · by **jbarsness** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:23 pm

I need some help with finding a good Arrow rest for my PSE. i am new to bow hunting so some help would be great. I have been hunting with a Rifle for 20 years and now i need A new challenge.

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:33 pm

You picked a good sport for a challenge. I personally use a rest called a T.M. Hunter. It's a springloaded two prong rest. The only downside that I see is that if your hands shake a excessively when you see ole Mossy horns, the arrow might flip off of the rest. Other than that it's a great rest.

progers · by **progers** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:41 pm

Kwack, that reminds me of a story.

Climbed up in my climber and got situated! I always do a moch practice shot and draw back just to make sure everything is good to go. When I drawed back, the arrow flipped to the side and came unnocked. It fell, hit the stand and flipped towards the ground. The arrow lands nock first. sticking in the ground with tha broadhead looking straigh back up at me! After about 10 minutes of thinking about, "What If?", I got tha climber, spun around to the back side of the tree and climbed down to get it! Just couldn't take it anymore! :shock:

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:13 pm

seems like a smart move progers, I have a 2 prong spring loaded rest also and I have missed a few deer because of the arrow falling off it, I think i'm gonna try a whisker biscuit this year, any one got any positive or negative feed back about the whisker biscuit rest I'd really love to hear it.

artjaggard · by **artjaggard** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:32 pm

Hey Carnivore,
I've just got a whisker biscuit too. It costs 3 fps, but I'm keeping it.
Art

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:53 pm

I did hear that, but was unsure of how much a loss it would cost me. If 3 fps is the difference in a hit or a jumped string then i'll quit bow hunting, I believe i could live with such a small decrease in speed. thanks.

truk · by **truk** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:45 pm

my wb only cost me 2 fps, one of the best investments i have made

bambeklr · by **bambeklr** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:08 am

I used the t-m hunter for years, its a great reliable rest. I went to a fall away rest now to eliminate torqueing at the shot. I purchased a trophy taker- shaky hunter. It took some getting used to since everytime I draw I look at the arrow rest to make sure the arrow doesnt come off. Which stems from that darn t-m hunter. The shaky hunter has a half moon shaped arrow rest to hold the arrow better. Once you hit the release the is not touching anything. You cant torque it or drop. And there is no friction thus no loss in speed. You all should check it out. I love it. I killed 2 bucks with it the first week I put it on. I was gonna get a wisker biscuit but My friend has one and it seems to tear up his fletchings after a while. I dont want my arrow to sound like and f-15. I cut my losses and figured I personaly would have less drama with the drop away.

DocHolladay · by **DocHolladay** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:52 am

i have a WB and have not had any problems at all with the fletching. you put the arrow and and it doesnt move till you draw and release. it wont fall off the bow, it doesnt move around, and its quiet. i give it a 10. i use the WB Droptine QS. wouldnt have anything else.

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:35 am

Who's using fletchings and who's using plastic vanes? I'm setup with three feather fletch with slight helical twist, I think right twist but very slight.

DocHolladay · by **DocHolladay** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:49 am

i have plastic vanes with a right twist.

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:48 pm

I use fletchings. I spray a little scotchguard on them in the rainy or very humid days to keep the water from damaging the fletch.

artjaggard · by **artjaggard** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:03 pm

Hi folks,
I shoot 5" plastic with right twist on 24" 2114's. I even use plastic on pheasant from a recurve. ( I have a homemade wire rest on the recurve). I find about half the arrows so I use the old practice arrows that I don't mind losing too much.
Art

jbarsness · by **jbarsness** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:49 pm

All the info has been graet i like the WB there is something to be said about not have to worrie about the Arrow falling off the rest.

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:26 pm

My whole setup consist of an old PSE mach flite 4, VERY HEAVY! Pulling 63# , 30" draw , Easton XX75 2219 30" , 5" feather fletch , 100gr. thunderhead and can use 1 pin from 0 to 30 yds. after that the tradjectory falls off quick I think all i need to do is change to the whisker biscuit for my arrow rest jitters. This heavy arrow shoots a 2 or 3 " group up to 30 yds. which is good enough for me. ok fellas aside from telling me I need to go and invest in a new $900.00 mathews and a totally new setup do ya think i could get another couple seasons out of a setup like this?

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:22 pm

Use it til the limbs split. I shoot a Jennings Carbon Extreme about 12 years old now. Light bow for it's day. Pull at 80 lbs. , 2513 XX75. A Monatana Mini Pin sight. Thuderhead 125's. I've killed one heck of a lot of deer, one elk, three mule deer and who knows how much small game that thing has killed. I like my setup because it's got a lot of punch behind it. Super fast speed is good, but if you can get a heavy arrow to fly descently fast(around 250 fps), in my opinion, that's even better. No offense to those speed demons out there. I'm just kind of set in my ways. A heavy arrow at a descent speed will consistently punch through ribs like their twigs. I've even punched a couple of deer in the shoulders and it still went through.

DocHolladay · by **DocHolladay** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:27 pm

i think you could. why not get lighter arrows? or an over draw and shorter arrows? i think what you have is fine as long as you do. if the person shooting the bow is happy then dont worry about what everybody else says. you need to make yourself happy before you satisfy everyone else.

progers · by **progers** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:44 pm

Back a few years ago, when I bow hunted, the way I had my bow set, most of the time the arrow did not pass threw My friend always criticized that but, we spent way more time trailing his and sometimes, not finding any. Now, the deer I shot, the arrows were trashed but, I considered it to be a good thing. When they would run, the arrow would be "tinging" the trees and it would really do some damage, to deer and arrow. But, the average deer I shot was found withing 35 yards. Never lost any. Does anyone else have arrows that don't pass threw? Is it more of a speed thing or, broadhead/arrow diameter thing? Or both??

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:00 pm

I would say it's more of an energy thing. An arrow hits with foot pounds just like a rifle bullet. The more foot pounds, the more likely the arrow will pass through. A light arrow that is really fast is like a .222 rifle bullet. Yeah it's fast, but how much energy does it have behind it? And a heavy arrow that is fairly quick is like a .308. It doesn't have blazing speed or super trajectory, but it 's got enough power to push through a deer. I like my arrows to pass through. Most of my stands are fairly high, 18 to 20 feet, so the arrow enters the chest cavity fairly high up on the deer. If I don't get a pass through, there's a chance I won't find a blood trail for a while.

bambeklr · by **bambeklr** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:22 pm

I shoot beeman ics camo 400's with a 100gr rocket side winder expandable. My bow is set at 81lbs and was chronagraphed at 308 fps. I always get passthrews. I shoot alot of deer through the front shoulder. They dont go to far. I have had complete passthrews through both front shoulders up to 35yds. I have killed deer at 55yds. I have 3 pins #1 is 0-35 #2 is 35-45 #3 is 45-55yds. The only deer I didnt get a passthrew on was and 8pt at 25yds. He dressed 202lbs. I hit him through the shoulder. My thing is if you hit lungs and take out the running gear he cant go to far.

jbarsness · by **jbarsness** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:52 pm

Hey Art i would love to see a picture of your rest you should post some pictures.

artjaggard · by **artjaggard** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:53 pm

Hey Jbarness,
I'm still learning this computer thing, so I don't know about pictures yet, but the rest is amazingly simple. I used coat hanger, drilled a small hole in the floor of the rest and a small hole in the wall of the riser. In the floor hole I put a piece of wire shaped like an upside down L facing the front of the bow. On the wall I shaped the wire like a minature 9 so that the arrow rides along the top of the 9. The L piece holds the arrow up from the rest enought for the fletching to pass between it and the side wire. No kick at all from the fletching hitting the riser, the fletching barely touches it.
Art

jbarsness · by **jbarsness** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:32 pm

That sounds really cool i see you have a little Mcgyver in you.

DocHolladay · by **DocHolladay** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:30 pm

dang bambeklr, im surprised you havent busted a vane in your forehead yet trying to pull that back. in my opinion it really doesnt matter about draw weight. mine is set up at 60# with the option of going to 70#. 60 is light enough i can pull it back under the stress of seeing any deer(this year will be my first) and not pull any muscles while doing it. ol' ted nugent has his set at 55# if im correct and he has shot everything with it.

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:41 pm

You're right Doc. Draw weight should be what's comfortable for you and what you can do under the stress of a wary old whitetail. Uncle Ted's pulling around 55 lbs.

doglhunt · by **doglhunt** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:03 am

I have hunted with a bow for nearly 30 years. In that time I've tried a lot of different rests. In my opinion, the biscuit is the all around best. Before I started using the biscuit, I can't tell you how many deer that I have lost a shot at because the arrow came off of the string and fell to the ground or drew then for some reason or another had to let off and the arrow came off and fell to the ground or the arrow got knocked off the rest as I was repositioning in the stand. With the biscuit these will never happen. It's easy to adjust and stays secured in place as well as any other rest. The reduction in arrow speed is negligible, only a couple of feet per second, and that can be abated by triming some of the "whiskers". Take your buscuit and lay it flat on a table. With a good sharp utility knife carefully cut around the inside of the biscuit to remove about 1/4 to 1/3 of the whiskers. This reduces resistance on the arrow and lets it fly faster. I use feather fletching and thinning the "whiskers" helps reduce the wear on them.

Good Luck.

progers · by **progers** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:23 am

KwackWhacker wrote:You're right Doc. Draw weight should be what's comfortable for you and what you can do under the stress of a wary old whitetail. Uncle Ted's pulling around 55 lbs.

Yea, 55# of air pressure in his head! :twisted:

It really sounds like tha biscuit is a good investment. I will definately try one out when I get back into bow hunting! :wink:

DocHolladay · by **DocHolladay** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:47 am

Ted Nugent is a smart man when it comes to archery and hunting. he is a big help in the hunting/shooting world. he is doing as much as he can to help us and future hunters out. he may be wierd at times but when he opens his mouth about hunting and shoting you better listen cause its alway great advise.

progers · by **progers** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:02 am

Ted Nugent is a fruitcake!

I've seen Ted in concert several times and watch his shows some. I really don't care to hear him either way! Good advise or bad, he has a bad attitude and is know for being a BRAT! He does alot for tha kids, I give him that but, I would never let my kid near him! Just my opinion!

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:06 am

I don't worship the man but I do envy the H#ll out of him for his outdoor adventures, I have no desire to be a rock and roll guru but i'm sure it creates a darn good residual income.

bambeklr · by **bambeklr** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:06 pm

Hey doc. I know I dont need all that but Its just one of those things I do. Not really sure why. Just gotta go as hard as I can. Doesnt matter how fast your bow is it will never beat the speed of sound. If he is gonna jump the string he is gonna jump it. I get over 300fps out of my bow with the hunting setup. The way it is when I am in the woods. I do like the yardage since its so flat. I have shot the bow sitting down in 10 degree weather and killed deer. It doesnt hurt me any. But then again It helps to be 6' 3" and 320lbs. I like my setup but I still wish I never would have gotten rid of my old trusty pse. I swear that bow could kill on its own. I had it for years. I saw carnivores post and let me tell you, if you are comfortable dont even think about changing. My friend shoots and old bear whitetail II. He is awsome with it. Not fast but quiet and deadly. When he tells me he shot I just go to help him drag or get the atv. There is always somthin dead.

carnivore · by **carnivore** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:44 pm

Hey bambeklr. I don't blame ya for going at what ever #age ya can, I wish I could handle the strain, I sure would if I could. There's really no way I could prove it, But I have a brother that shoots a mathews and granted he has a good letoff ,but he draws a 30" arrow at 83# and will consistently hit a plastic aspirin bottle at 50 yds and do this for an hour or so a day. We all know it ain't ALL about speed and ft.lbs. of energy to extremes, But if ya can do it then by all means i'd do it. I wouldn't bust on someone who takes neck shots instead of takin out the lungs, so all i have for someone who can hitem harder and faster is congrats.

bambeklr · by **bambeklr** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:18 pm

I am a firm beleiver in you shoot what works for you. I just cant help but push the envelope. I can put all my arrows in a 4 inch circle at 55yds with my third pin. I start out shooting far and then come in close. You figure once you hold groups far you know whats happening at close range. I feel it helps me. I feel that guys can shoot farther distances than they think but they dont try them until they have been shooting all day and then they are shaky and ruin there confidence. I try to leave of on a good note. I shoot and arrow everyday out the back door. Think about it, not often do you get a second shot at the same animal. It keeps me calm because it the only shot.

artjaggard · by **artjaggard** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:31 pm

Hi folks,

I just picked up the new Pearson Pride. I'll have to refletch my arrows with 4" vanes as my whisker biscuit rides a little closer to the string. I think I can pull a couple inches off the length of the arrow too. Not tuned up yet but I'm pulling 70# at 27" draw and getting 258 fps. Hoping to pull that up another 10 when I get everything working together. Not to bad for a short draw.

So here's the question. Should I use a helical fletch or straight? If it doesn't make a difference I prefer the helical. Also some of you guys use feathers instead of plastic. What are the benefits and drawbacks. I am staying with the whisker biscuit. I haven't trimmed it out yet as someone suggested. I think that when I do, I'll only trim it where the vanes go through.

What do you think?

Art

KwackWacker · by **KwackWacker** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:26 pm

Vanes stand up to a little abuse and are great in wet conditions. Feathers are more forgiving in flight and on the release if they touch the rest. Definitely put a helical twist on them, right or left doesn't really matter. Think of it like a football, with a spiral it spins straight and true, without the spiral it tumbles and is bound to go anywhere. An arrow without a helical twist won't tumble but they're not as accurate.

progers · by **progers** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:25 pm

And ya want to make sure they all have the same twist. I had a guy redo some arrows for me when I first started bow hunting. I missed two deer in a row within two minutes, shot under them. Just so happens, that was the two newer arrows.

todd malabanan · by **todd malabanan** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:28 pm

Muzzy Zero effect :wink:

bambeklr · by **bambeklr** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:20 pm

I must have had a brain fart fellas I shoot white plastic veins called quick spins the helical is built in to them. I kept saying I used fletchings. I bow hunt in all kinds of weather and I mean rom monsoons to blizzards. Hell It was so cold last year that I went bow hunting and my hands were burning for 4 days, not good huh.

jason penfield · by **jason penfield** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:00 pm

Hi,
I am a new user on this site.
I have had great success on rattling in bucks, and would like to talk
more about rattling with others. I have some great tips to share.

artjaggard · by **artjaggard** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:30 am

Hey Jason!
Bring it on! You're going to love this site, and we're going to love learning whatever tips you have that work.
Wild Wild West
Art

jbarsness · by **jbarsness** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:49 am

Yes i agree i am all about finding new info. I have not had great luck in the past rattling so ye please share your tips with us.

jason penfield · by **jason penfield** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:04 pm

Ha Ha.
Hey guys, Let me tel you a little about myself, I am a deer biologist.
I know about deer calling /RATTLING. I suggest slowing it down a little
on the rattling. I have found that light rattling/tickeling the tips of the antlers together every 15 min or so along with a soft grunt will bring in
more deer then you think. GIVE IT A TRY

jason penfield · by **jason penfield** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:14 pm

BRING THAT ON ARTYYYY

progers · by **progers** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:22 pm

That's basically what I do whenever I do it, which is only a few times a year. The doe ratio being what it is probably has alot to do with it, also!?! What do you think?

While up in the stand, I "tick" the ends together and sometimes hit the base and make it lock and stop. Then hit a few more "ticks". Follow up with a low grunt about 15 seconds after that. Then, sit back for about 20 minutes with an ocasional low grunt. Also, I may even reach out and rub a branch and leaves with the horns for a "rubbing" simulation.

Most of all, I just kick back and let nature run its daily course! Tend to have much better luck with that! :wink:

jason penfield · by **jason penfield** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:45 pm

The deer population dose matter however, I am one of those who fallows
the moon to predict deer activity, I like to hunt between 10:00 to 2:00
on days when the moon is full, the buck activity is at its best. but
remember that factors such as the rut, food availability, weather conditions, hunting pressure and the type of habitat have more impact
on deer movement than moon phases. however when the highest of buck
movement is when i like rattling. I think my fav. hunting time is the week
after the hunters moon. buck movement WOW !

progers · by **progers** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:29 pm

Personally, I wouldn't put much into the "moon phases" as being what causes it, especially when it comes to the rut! Basing the week after the hunters moon is more of a coincident of your location than anything. From where I hunt, deer season hasn't even began, the days are longer and it is hotter! I would bet money it has more to do with the prerut and the acorns falling than anything. You will see more deer in the daylight hours at this time, from where I hunt, anyway!

From what I observe here, deer move less on moon light nights. They move more at dawn and dusk when there is a full moon. Now, take a new moon, you will see more deer moving at night and in the middle of the day! I totally agree with your statement "rut, food availability, weather conditions, hunting pressure and the type of habitat have more impact
on deer movement than moon phases." That stands true no matter of your location! Here, deer movement really picks up towards the end of November. It is basically a last ditch effort to put on the weight before rut and winter itself!

Some even go as far as saying that full moon phases is what triggers the rut! I say that is hogwash! It has to do with the shorting of daylight hours more than anything.

I will have to go with the time between the Full Beaver Moon and the Full Cold Moon to be the best time to see deer in my area! At this time, we are getting down to the last few weeks before the shortest day of the year which is the cause/effect, not the moons themselves!

Always consider that each location is different, from North to South! We all observe the same full moon on the same day! There is only one factor that changes from region to region-day light hours! The amount of sunlight even effects your natural browse that deer seek! That is the only common denominator that I see stands true to each region!

cynic · by **cynic** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:34 pm

jason penfield · by **jason penfield** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:07 pm

Biologists have found that more than 70 percent of does bred
from nov. 13 to nov. 28
Studying the moons impact on "RUTTING WHITETAILS" came to believe
Nov. full moon the Indians harvest moon, greatly influences when does enter estrus!
The next full moon after the harvest moon is called the rutting or
"Hunters Moon" and is accompanied by a similar phenomenon, this
moon occurs nov. 19 most deer researchers say the days leading
up to and following this date produce extraodinary movement
by rutting white tail bucks.

progers · by **progers** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:12 pm

Yea but, I live in Louisiana and I am in that 30% you speak of! During the Hunters Moon here, the bucks are kicking off prerut. The rut doesn't get kicked off good til about the middle of december and can run into January! 70% is still not a passing grade! I still think that daylight amounts have more to do with kicking off the rut! It seems to be more of a likely pattern! :wink:

Just out of curosity, what are your yearlings looking like this time a year? Are they growing out of their spots yet?

cynic · by **cynic** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:01 am

I'm with Progers.

Bow Hunting

Bow Hunting

GOOD THINKIN OLE MAN!

10-4 on the loss of f.p.s.

arrow rest

???

Thanks guys

obsolete ? maybe. but in the budget

complete pass threws

ART

wow

Biscuit!

That may be a little harsh ole man

draw weight

Go hard and fast!! if ya can

draw weight

fletchings

buck movement

post

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