Comparing calibers

[Comet]

Hey all.

I seen two beuties at Wal-Mart. A Savage .30-06 and a Remmington model 770 .300 WinMag. I live in western Virginia and will shoot mostly whittales, bears, and elk I think. Hogs too if they got 'em, but there is also the possibility that I will be in Nome, Alaska in which case I'll be gunning for moose and whatever they got up there. And too, there is a possibility I will have the opportunity to be in the vicinity of Okhotsk, Russia sometime. I will want to kill a local critter of course! (prolly similar to Alaskan critters?) No polar bears though, I don't shoot endangered stuff. There's also a Savage 7-mm mag but I hear it tears up meat and I firmly believe in eating what you kill. This will be my first gun if that helps. And I mean first, I never had so much as an Airsoft and I'm 14 dogon years old! (which is why this ALL rests on my mom allowing me to hunt, she hates it!)

Please compare these and recommend for me, but I don't mind suggestions on other calibers. I seen .270's there and a Ruger of some kind (not knowing what a Ruger is).

Thanks folks!

[Bowhunters]

Both the 30-06 and the 300 Win Mag will kill Moose, Black Bear, Elk, very well. Your choice of caliber in those two weapons is probably less important than using high quality bonded or partition ammunition.

What you need to make sure is to not go cheap on the ammunition you buy when going out to hunt those three, you need to ensure you get quality ammo that will stay together if it hits bone like premium bonded or partition construction ammunition.

Those types of ammo are made to stay together and drive through where some of the cheap ammo can or will 'blow up' into pieces of lead when it hits bone and you may not get good killing penetration.


Your comment on the 7mm Rem Mag on "tearing up game meat" can be true, especially on shots at close range but so will other calibers like the 300 Win Mag. I own a 7mm Rem Mag and I shoot Nosler Partition ammunition and on whitetails below 100yds i've seen where it occasionaly damaged some meat but not or at least very rarely on shots over 100yds.

Usually the damaged meat is not from the entry hole but from an exit hole on whitetails. Nosler Partition and Bonded bullets mushroom but will stay together in one piece all the way through the deer and on very close range shots it will often exit out the other side of the whitetail deer. Overkill on whitetail deer perhaps but exactly the kind of bullet performance you want and need in taking larger big game like Moose, Elk, Black Bear.

Regardless on which of those calibers you go with, especially on Moose you should expect to need to put at least two rounds into it to put it down. Even when shooting a muzzle loader, 2 shots may be needed to put down a large Moose.

[ironhead]

Gotta add more info on you Bowhunters,,,for a very first rifle and at 14 years old,,I would HAVE TO recommend the 270 Ruger. The rifle itself will last you a lifetime and with the current list of ammo you can take ANY of the animals you listed. Federal makes 3 diffrent varieties of ammo for the game size you are planning on, light skin, med, and heavy skin bonded bullets. The 270 is rapidly gaining popularity as an all around cartridge. I have an uncle that swears on them for elk, I myself used to use 250 savage and the old '06. At your age, unless your 6'0 200lbs i have to recommend the smaller caliber, it will be much easier for you to handle.

[Bowhunters]

Dang, I missed his age completely. LOL

The .270 would probably be right on the bottom of the recommended list for Moose but for Elk and Black Bear and anything below it would be fine.

[ironhead]

With the heavy bonded bullets, 270 is fine at shorter to moderate ranges. When we lived in Wyoming, Dad and Grandpa used 250 savage model 99's on moose and did quite well. I dont think i would be confident going after Polar Bear with anything less than 300 Win Mag. For Black Bear, i would have no problem with it at all. As with all big game, match your ammo to your prey and practice. When i turned 14 i was given a Remington model 700 BDL in 30-06,,,it was a fine first high power rifle. I gave my son a ruger M77 in 250 savage,,,wish i still had that one. Let me know what you decide on.

[Comet]

Thanks guys. It's down to .270 or .30-06, at the moment .30-06, but I'd still like to see more info on them both. For example, is the recoil on the .30-06 really that bad? If not, I'll go for that. Big selection of cartriges, and from what I read, I need not doubt that what I shoot will die relatively quickly.

Thanks, folks!

[Bowhunters]

Yes, generaly speaking a 30-06 will have slightly more recoil than a 270 but the difference isnt earth shattering and there are things that can be done to lessen recoil.

Perhaps add an aftermarket recoil pad if you find recoil to be an issue, Limbsaver brand makes excellent pads specially designed to reduce recoil.

Also what you wear when shooting can lessen recoil, if you go to the rifle range wearing a T-shirt you will get full effect of a rifles recoil, but if you take a coat to wear while shooting or put a pad between the stock and your should that will help for target shooting.

Usually when hunting in the winter you don't notice recoil that much, you will be wearing cold weather gear of some type that will help and you will be thinking about the shot placement and the animal.

[ironhead]

All a 270 (and several other calibers) is a 30-06 necked down. The smaller bullet gives a better trajectory and i believe slightly faster. Recoil will be no noticeable diffence. Ammo selections on both are very good, availability of ammo is good so the price will be good for either ammo. Either rifle one is a very good choice.

[SuperJ1975]

.30-06

[ironhead]

I just checked one of the pre-eminent rifle publications, they recommend for black bear anything from .270 to .30 cal.

[gregrn43]

I have a 30-06, 7mm mag, and a 300 win mag. All will do what you are wanting to do if you use the proper bullet. The one thing that I would advise you on is your choice of rifles and that is the rem 770. I am a remington fan owning 5 remington rifles, but the 770 is a joke. I personally cant believe that remington would build such a rifle. I have only shot two of them, they are very cheaply made and the accuracy that I got was not remington standard at all. Their model 700 is a fine rifle that will last many many years. My 700 bdl in 30-06 I have had for 28 years and it has been a dandy. Good luck on your choice.

[treecareman]

I would advise you to get a remmy 700 sps 30-06 for all around hunting and great value for a tried tested and true rifle. As for recoil remington makes a reduced recoil cartridge for this caliber. Easy to find ammo and the most popular caliber ever. Also many reloading options. P.S. 270 Win. cartridge is a 308 Win. necked down, not a 30-06.

[Bowhunters]

I would advise you to get a remmy 700 sps 30-06 for all around hunting and great value for a tried tested and true rifle. As for recoil remington makes a reduced recoil cartridge for this caliber. Easy to find ammo and the most popular caliber ever. Also many reloading options. P.S. 270 Win. cartridge is a 308 Win. necked down, not a 30-06.

Actually you are mistaken, the .308 case is a short action cartridge and is approx 1/2" shorter than the .270win and .30-06 which are both long action cartridges.

The .308 case is approx 2.0" in length and can be necked down to .243 and other short action cases sizes.

The .30-06 and the .270win cases are both approx 2.5" in length, the .270 is a couple thousands longer than the .30-06 but that is caused from the necking down process as the necking down stretches the case slightly.

.270win left and .308win right.

[treecareman]

Sorry, got a brain burp, confused 243 with 270 for the 308 necked down.

[Bowhunters]

Sorry, got a brain burp, confused 243 with 270 for the 308 necked down.

Hahaha thats cool, as I get older I feel that I am having those things more frequently.

When you are young people call that a brain burp or fart but when you get older they call it senility. LOL

I seem to be having more of those as I get older but I still haven't forgotten how to get home yet. LOL

[oldzimm]

With some brass being hard to find, I can make brass for most of my rifles with empty 308 and 30-06 cases. I have a 307 win. and I know brass for that will someday be real hard to find. If anybody has any ideas on forming 307 brass from another cartridge, I'm all ears.

[Bowhunters]

With some brass being hard to find, I can make brass for most of my rifles with empty 308 and 30-06 cases. I have a 307 win. and I know brass for that will someday be real hard to find. If anybody has any ideas on forming 307 brass from another cartridge, I'm all ears.

Sorry but the .307 case sits on its own limb all by itself so you need to hit the gun shows to get a supply of brass now for your future reloading if you aren't doing so already.

The fact that the .307 is 'Short Action, Belted, and Rimed' sets it apart from all other cartridges, find another that has all three of those attributes and then if you can find the die set you can do it but I don't know of any.

[truk]

if in alaska, the .450 bushmaster on the left, the .35 whelen on the right

[oldzimm]

With some brass being hard to find, I can make brass for most of my rifles with empty 308 and 30-06 cases. I have a 307 win. and I know brass for that will someday be real hard to find. If anybody has any ideas on forming 307 brass from another cartridge, I'm all ears.

Sorry but the .307 case sits on its own limb all by itself so you need to hit the gun shows to get a supply of brass now for your future reloading if you aren't doing so already.

The fact that the .307 is 'Short Action, Belted, and Rimed' sets it apart from all other cartridges, find another that has all three of those attributes and then if you can find the die set you can do it but I don't know of any.

I load .307 win. by using .308 dies. Since my post I read that .307 cartridges can be made out of .444 Marlin cartridges. I also own a 444 Marlin and I just can't see that happening. Unless I misread your post, the .307 Win. is not belted. The 307 Win. is a .308 with a 30-30 rim. I might try to make .307's out of a .444 but .444's aren't cheap either.

[Bowhunters]

Good info, I thought i'd read that it was belted like a magnum somewhere but must have been thinking of another caliber.

Didn't know you could make it out of a .444 either, must have to run it through at least two different resizeing dies and cut a big chunk of the length off the neck. LOL Lots of work.

As I said before, i'd hit the gun shows and the internet for some .307 brass.

I did a google on '.307 brass for sale' and found that Midway USA sells .307 brass at a reasonable price ( box of 50 for $28 ) and a little bit off everything they sell goes to the NRA which is good also.

[DouglasSpear]

My grandfather gave me my first rifle that he won in a gun raffle. He is left handed and the rifle was right handed. I was the oldest grandson too. Any time he wins or has an extra rifle, he hands them down to the grandsons. It was a Remington 700 with a 9X Bushnell scope. I believe I was 14 when he gave it to me, possibly 15. I still use it today.

This is NOT my rifle, but almost identical - just found it on the web.

[oldzimm]

Thanks for the info. Bowhunter, I'll check Midway out for 307 brass. I think .444 brass is too expensive to butcher up, specially when you own a .444 Marlin.

[Bowhunters]

Yeah, their price on the .444 Marlin brass was around $45 for 50ea. so buying the .307 brass is definitely cheaper and no chopping or resizing. LOL