Experts on Broadhead Practice - Please Advise!

[smartguys]

Hi Guys, this is my 2nd year hunting w/bow. I guess you could say I am totally addicted. I was lucky to have taken 7 deer last year. One for myself. The other I donate to the poor. I created a local partnership - www.deertotherescue.com - please check it out, we're proud of this. Fathers, sons, quality time, and helping the homeless. Anyway, my question is this: Last year I strictly shot Rage 3-Blade. And occassionally used the practice heads. There was never a difference between field tips and the practice heads. None. This year, I wanted to try Muzzy MX4's (I lost a deer to the Rage not passing-thru - I hit shoulder and only got 1" penetration). So I thought I'd try fixed - I read nothing but great reviews about Muzzy. Problem: I continue to shoot high and left with their practice head, no matter what I do. I shoot every day. I shoot a PSE X-Force Dream Season. I can group field tips inside a silver dollar at 20-30 yds. I'm actually breaking arrows. But man, I try shooting the the Muzzy fixed and high and left they go. 4" up, 4" over. Am I canting the bow? Is this typical? Do most fixed blades air foil? Should I stick with Rage? Help a rookie out, please. Thanks/Kel.

[Jaypo]

The knock on fixed has always been that they plane a little more often out of faster bows than mech. heads. However, they penetrate more and malfunction less than mechs, and Muzzy, in particular, have a rep. of breaking thru everything they hit. However, I have read that they tend to plane. I, personally, shoot Magnus heads and have never had any problems at all. In fact, they fly identical to my field tips. You may want to spin test the arrows with the heads on them and make sure there is no wobble, and maybe switch a few heads on different arrows to find the best combination. However, with a bow that is tuned properly, the heads should fly like field points. Hope that helps!

[KwackWacker]

It's probably not something you're doing. If you can keep a tight group that is 4" left and 4" high then that is how those muzzies fly out of your bow and you need to sight your bow in with the broadheads you hunt with. I shot thunderheads for years but they shot differently than my field tips. I just had to know that if I shot field tips my pins were off. I switched to G5 Montecs last year and now there is no difference between my broadheads and my field tips. They're expensive but they're worht it to me any way.

[Whitetail Assassin]

Well first thing is to have it paper tuned at a pro shop.You can get great flight out of a bow slightly out of tune,but a broad head will show it.I personally prefer slick trick mag 100's myself awsome flight an blood trails.The muzzy broad heads should fly better than that for you.

[DocHolladay]

You can paper tune and flight tune(walkback) at your home. Dont worry about a pro shop. They charge for that(at least most do). Also, if the pro shop is using one of their staffers to tune, you will have to re-tune because the staffer shoots differently than you do. Not all pro shops have a bow vice to shoot out of. As Jaypo points out, the Muzzys tend to have a little trouble at higher speeds with planing. Tuning should correct the problem or at least minimize it.

[smartguys]

You can paper tune and flight tune(walkback) at your home. Dont worry about a pro shop. They charge for that(at least most do). Also, if the pro shop is using one of their staffers to tune, you will have to re-tune because the staffer shoots differently than you do. Not all pro shops have a bow vice to shoot out of. As Jaypo points out, the Muzzys tend to have a little trouble at higher speeds with planing. Tuning should correct the problem or at least minimize it.

Thanks. I'd like to try the "walk back tuning", do you have any reference that gives details as to how to do this? I did do the paper tune, got perfect bullet holes. Then, I threw away the practice fixed blades that Muzzy supplies because I shot a real Muzzy fixed, and also a real Slick Trick, and both were absolutely perfect, spot on. I think the thickness and different shape of those practice blades are a problem. Yes, my bow is shooting 325, so all I've read is that these two broadheads are both good at these speeds. Funny, I kept practicing last night and did the famous Robin Hood shot (by accident of course), but after thousands of practice shots over the past year, I finally, and accidentally, shot one arrow directly into the spine of another. I ruined two arrows, at once, but got a great trophy for the garage wall above the bench that I'm sure I will share the story for years. It's quite a funny visual. The one arrow is perfectly inserted into another and the receiving arrow exploded. Thanks for your advice, guys.

[Whitetail Assassin]

Well I have tried a different broad head for many years so I have a bunch that I can try.I personally shoot a monster getting 341fps out of my hunting rig.I only go to a shop that allows me to shoot bow through paper not someone else.I shot slick tricks last year out of my Pearson really like the head.It fly's really well out of the monster.If I read your post right the real blades are flying better than the practice blades did right.I've had that issue on slower bows that I had where practice blades actually shot different. well I have a chart on walk back when I find it I'll send it to you okay.

[smartguys]

Well I have tried a different broad head for many years so I have a bunch that I can try.I personally shoot a monster getting 341fps out of my hunting rig.I only go to a shop that allows me to shoot bow through paper not someone else.I shot slick tricks last year out of my Pearson really like the head.It fly's really well out of the monster.If I read your post right the real blades are flying better than the practice blades did right.I've had that issue on slower bows that I had where practice blades actually shot different. well I have a chart on walk back when I find it I'll send it to you okay.

Great, thanks! I'd like to see that chart. I'm a visual guy so that will help.

[mywaynow]

I have had different heads plane as well. I used to shoot Satellites many years ago. The bows were not as fast, but the heads still shot high and left too. Compare the heads to the different patterns that amunition will group by brand.

I would not change to Muzzy as a result of a "non-pass through" issue from last year. My opinion is that you hit the shoulder bone, not blade on that shot. It would not matter what tip was on that arrow, the shoulder bone of a mature deer will not result in pass through. Most likely will not kill the animal either. I would switch to Muzzy heads to get away from the mechanical issues of expandable heads though.

Just stop worrying about group location on the target. Once the season is upon you, sight the bow in for your hunting heads. If you want to see your practice tips hitting a bull's eye, draw a second bull where the grouping of practice tips hits when shooting the bow sighted in for hunting heads.

One thing about carbon arrows (assuming you shoot them) that you don't get to enjoy, is the effect of the "Robin Hood" arrow. My last "Robin Hood" was when I was shooting aluminum arrows. The receiving arrow peels like a bannana. It looks really cool. It was also more difficult to hae that happen with aluminum too. The new carbon arrows are hollow at both ends. Aluminums that I shot in the past were pointed at the nock end to allow the nock to seat and take the glue properly. This meant the penetrating arrow had to hit a 1/16 diameter point in order to drive into the arrow. Otherwise if it was off that 1/16th, it would deflect and just ruin a nock.

[DocHolladay]

There is a post here in the bow hunting section that has diagrams for walkback tuning. I couldnt find it or I would have posted a link. Run a search on google or whatever search engine you use and it will produce numerous results that should help.

[backwoodsman]

In my compound I shoot Muzzy 100gr. 4-blade. I only shoot the practice blades before season I never use field points anymore on that setup. Sight your bow in for the Muzzys, just like different brand gun ammo they may shoot different then the last one you used etc. For several years I tried all kinds of broadheads and personaly I wouldnt give you a bucket of spit for a 5 gallon bucket of expandables but thats my opinion. I tried cheap up to $45 for 3 and went back to Muzzy and will stay with Muzzy. I only shoot 48lbs now and my Muzzy's havent failed me yet. Most modern broadheads are good but when you've killed over 100 deer with one certain brand you stick with it. One thing I do is sharpen all blades even right out of the package. They aint ready till they scare ya. When I use to switch back and forth between broadheads and fieldpoints my Muzzy's did shoot 4-6: high and too the left.

[smartguys]

I am in 100% agreement with you, BW. I have been testing lots of blades this summer, shooting a lot. I have also come to a few conclusions that I will not change, moving forward:

1) Practice blades are different. Different thickness, even different shapes, not even the full amount of metal surface. So of course they will not be the same as a real BH. So I will never use practice blades again. If I want to know how a BH shoots, I'll shoot one and resharpen that blade. Plus, there are not many mechanicals out there that allow you to resharpen, which is really sad. Don't get me wrong, you can sharpen some of them, but it's not real easy.

2) Muzzy, 3 and 4 blade, as well as Slick Trick, fly spot on. I didn't even need to BH tune. I've read countless articles and blogs, literally hundreds, on BH, and two brands surface, over any other brands, over and over. Muzzy and ST. I re-sighted my bow - simple. I did the walk back tune and found center shot - simple. I did the paper tune only needing 2 minor adjustments - simple. All simple. No difference at all between field and BH. None. Bow is shooting spot on. No trip needed to the archery shop or Gander Mtn. None. No money spent. Every night I go out and shoot, no matter the distance, it's 6 arrows in a small group. I've also started using my bubble/level more and noticed how important that little thing is - that I typically ignored.

I do have 9 new Rage tips for backup for my son and I, and those did work well, and fly true, but I'm gonna go with ST 4s for 2009. They seem to fly the most exact. Plus I have a Stryker Crossbow which I'll use late archery (in Indiana, we can only use CB's in late archery). It shoots 405 FPS, and the mfg. even recommends that exact blade for that kind of speed.

Now, if I can just stop the shaking and the heavy breathing and heart racing when a deer walks in, it should be a fun season!

Stay safe! Aim small.

[backwoodsman]

Im glad to hear Im not the only one that still gets the thrill when a deer walks up into spittin distance. If you have plaenty of older broadheads, same size etc you can use them for practice too. I keep a few handfuls that have missed or taken deer for that purpose. Any broadhead dulls when being taken in and out of a quiver too, I sharpen my shooting broadhead every 2 or 3 trips. If they get shot they are resharpened before use again. Ive seen way too many people neglect that important step.

[Bill Koropsak]

I have been shooting Muzzy 125 grain 3 blades for 3 years now and for my money they are the best. Watch some of the new hunting shows and notice the POOR penitration on shoulder hits of those Pros using Rage broadheads. They only shoot em cause they get for FREE. My muzzy's have broken leg bones and ribs and even spines with complete pass through. Thats why they call them "Bad to the Bone" You can acually hear a distictive "crack" when they hit bone. I would never shoot mechanicals.

[Bill Koropsak]

I forgot to say that I never used the practice tips they supply on the addvise of my archery dealer. I just use regular 125 grain field tips and the Muzzy's shoot the same.

[HoytUSA]

The Muzzys grouped horribly for me as well. I too had problems with the Rage 2-blade not penetrating well at all. I found a head that shoots incredibly well for me that you might try. It's the Trophy Taker Shuttle T-Lock heads. They crush through bone, they fly as good as my field points out to 40 yards and they are fairly quiet compared to other heads. I shot a nice 9 point and a turkey last year. The deer was at 52 yards, the turkey was at 58 yards. I had complete pass throughs on both animals. I am actually putting together a video this year. The profits will go to 4H to help send kids to camp and help pay for the expenses of shooting tournaments they have. Trophy Taker is going to put a few commercials i the video for me. Trust me, they shoot great. If you don't like em I will gladly buy them from you.