question of ethics...

[wife]

Hi all. I have a question. My husband is a big time deer hunter. He's very good at it and people respect him for it. Being an anti hunter myself i refuse to eat the meat, so when my husband kills a deer, he always has to give it away. This year he has a friend at work that processes them himself and told my husband to give him all he could bag. My husband has now killed 2 (i think, so far) over his limit. But since they're not getting checked in..... you see where i'm going with this??
I just wondered what everyones thoughts were on this?

[T-bird]

The limits are there for a reason - if your husband's friend wants more meat, he should recruit others to help. One of a hunter's greatest responsibilities is to the animals we pursue. To hunt fairly, honestly, ethically, and within the scope of the law is most important in the true conservation of our wildlife. Hunting is about more than killing, and if I were you, I'd remind your husband and his friend of the same. And I would encourage you to have an open mind about hunting and wildlife conservation. Hunters have spent untold billions of dollars toward the protection and conservation of our natural resources, and hey, we're not all bad.

[BIGTSV]

The state sets limits on how many deer a person is to harvest for good reasons. In the event someone is taking more than they are allowed it hurts all hunters, and hurts the conservation of the deer. Most hunters follow the rules however with all things there are some bad seeds in the bunch.

As for being against the deer hunter or hunting,,,,, did you know there are more whitetail deer today then when Lewis and Clark explored the US? Did you know that there is over 26 million dollars in insurance claims because of deer related accidents, those are good reasons to hunt. In the event we did not hunt deer the figures would be much higher and the deer wpould end up starving to death. So that is why I hunt and encourage everyone to hunt and enjoy the deer meat! With an open mind you as well might enjoy a deer harvest!!!!!

[quigleysharps4570]

Good input from T-bird and BIGTSV. Kind of a mis-matched pair though in my opinion. I moved in with a gal like that once. Claimed she didn't have a problem with me hunting and fishing though. Then I found out I couldn't even hang a deer rack in the house. Wasn't too long after that I was packing my stuff. We were at it about my hunting and I told her, that I've always hunted and always will. Her words were "not in my house you're not". Didn't take me long at all to pack my stuff. Never gave it a second thought. Sorry for getting off track, but that always comes to mind when I hear a story like yours. Good luck to ya.

[carnivore]

Quigley you put me to mind of a friend of mine out in delaware whom originated from the Pa. mountains, I swear that guy hunts himself to the sick bed every year. and his integrity and hunting ethics are impecable. He eats every thing he kills, and has sent plenty a good gal packing when it came down to his personal freedom. Sounds like the disgruntled wife has a legitimate concern and if her hunny ever gets caught she'll be putting up the money to bring him back home. One thing she needs to tell her husband is that there is no honor among thieves no matter what the scenario so when the butcher boy gets caught you can bet he'll roll over on the hunter boy.

[wife]

I thank you all for the speedy replies. I guess I hit on a touchy subject...
Just to put a little more perspective on it, my husband is a very good deer hunter with great morals and ethics. He never fails to put other people on "his" spots for them to kill a deer. He also respects all of the rules and boundaries. I think he just got a little "off track" this year. I also want to add that he's not out there shooting anything that moves. He's let several go by and the ones he's taken have been weird rack small bucks.
Just wanted to tell Quigley that we have been married 10 years, and the first few years I had issued ultimatums, to no avail, lol.
I'm from the north and wasn't raised around deer huntig. I, like alot of females, just view it as killing innocent animals in their own habitat, but I can understand the arguments you all make.
Again, thanks to all. I hope this gets to my husbands conscious.

[IRIDEKODIAKHARD]

All lawbreakers get caught sooner or later...

[yonnyyonsn]

Hunters need to follow the rules (laws). If you are in a state that allows party hunting and the other hunter has an open tag then fine, let the hubby get the meat for his pal. Otherwise he is a law breaker.
There's a difference between a non-hunter and an anti-hunter. If someone doesn't want the meat because he can't cook or his partner who does won't cook it then it is good to give the meat away. But boy are they missing out. There is less cholesterol and a lot of other bad stuff in a V steak than in a chicken breast.

[Dcolwill]

I can understand if a person does not want to personally participate in killing the animal, seeing it close up, and then cutting into the vitals to make the meat edible later. It takes a sense of duty and respect for the animal to do what is necessary to make the meat edible and field dress the animal as soon as possible.

I grew up on a farm and had to participate in the mass butchering of 200+ chickens, a couple hogs, some feeder calves, etc. along with the animals I hunted.

Animals don't think like humans but they feel fear. All the meat you buy at the grocery store, was a living animal who has been tortured by the farming community all its life before being put on a slaughter assembly line watching what was happening to all its buddies before it was his turn.

I LOVE animals and respect every animal I hunt. I LOVE meat and God gave us the fish and animals for our use (says exactly that in the bible).

I always felt really sad about the way I had to treat farm animals because it was a business and you did things to make them get fat quicker and when their rapid growth spurt was over you killed them quickly so they would not consume feed that could get better return on the young animals in the their growth spurt.

When I kill an animal in the wild, it has lived a free full life without the torture of a domestic animal. When I make my kill it is as quick and painless as my equipment and my skill can make it. In nearly all cases the wild animal doesn't know what just happened to it. It did not see all its friends being killed to fill it with fear. As it rapidly loses blood from a well placed bullet or arrow, the animal gets sleepy, passes out and never regains conscious. If it's done right we're talking about 20 seconds life after impact.

Eat wild game with pride knowing that (unlike what your husband is practicing), hunters put much effort into protecting wild game and preserving this renewable meat source. The wild animal you're eating is better for you since it wasn't pumped with steroids and "fixed" so it would fatten quickly.

If you must shed any tears for animals that must be killed, then shed them for the chicken, beef, pork, and turkey you get from the store. The wild game has been given the best feed, habitat, and loving care us hunters could give it right up until the moment we harvest it.

Part of that loving care is state controlled limits on how many animals each hunter is allowed to harvest and when to harvest so the overall population and health of the animals is not negatively impacted.

[grizz]

its all about integrity,its easy to say i filled out my license this year when your hunting out of season, not to mention it's just plain against the law.People are accidently shot every year, what if some day your husband is hunting out of season and accidently shoots someone,then the courts are going to get a hold of him and tear him apart.

[ole3030]

I am a man of few words. everybody's right - but I figure ya could put it to rest like this -- Illegal = Unethical.

[sd_huntingirl]

Man, I guess opposites do attract. I don't think it is right to poach and if I was married to someone who did I wouldn't be telling anybody about it unless you want to get busted. I think the bag limits are there for a reason. On the other hand there are so many rules and regulations ( at least in Idaho) that kind of making hunting really hard because you feel like you break the law all the time. But shooting over your limit is a given-don't do it. People who do are the ones that give hunters a bad name. I am very opinionated, but I try to keep my thoughts to myself most of the time. However, I don't have any respect for anti- hunters. If you think about it you just have other people kill your animals for you. I feel bad for the animals in the store that are raised in a foot of crap and given all kinds of * to make them grow. I wish that people would just do what they want and not tell anybody else about it, but since you brought it I thought I would reply.
There's room for all God's creatures.....right next to the mashed potatoes!

[jb1buckmaster]

I thank you all for the speedy replies. I guess I hit on a touchy subject...
Just to put a little more perspective on it, my husband is a very good deer hunter with great morals and ethics. He never fails to put other people on "his" spots for them to kill a deer. He also respects all of the rules and boundaries. I think he just got a little "off track" this year. I also want to add that he's not out there shooting anything that moves. He's let several go by and the ones he's taken have been weird rack small bucks.
Just wanted to tell Quigley that we have been married 10 years, and the first few years I had issued ultimatums, to no avail, lol.
I'm from the north and wasn't raised around deer huntig. I, like alot of females, just view it as killing innocent animals in their own habitat, but I can understand the arguments you all make.
Again, thanks to all. I hope this gets to my husbands conscious.

First off, You are wrong. Because if your husband has great morals and ethic's. And respects other boundry's. We wouldn't be having this conversation.

Hunting is not about " The rack". Hunting is about putting your skills to the test. matching wit's with mother nature. It's NOT CALLED GETTING. IT'S CALLED HUNTING!

When you harvest that animal. It is because you were at the right place at the right time. When you start going out everyday. Just to see how many deer you can kill. That is just plain wrong.

I have hunted since 1978 - every year. Rifle season in Pennsylvania.
I hunted for 6 years before I harvested my first DOE. We were only allowed one deer per a year.

Many times wondered - why I never shot a deer. Mainly it was because of SLOB HUNTERS. The ones that kill two or more deer in Archery Season. Never tag them. Shoot deer in Rifle season. Never tag them and then go out in Muzzle Loader season. After the seasons are over. They produce antlers from Archery Season. Bragging what good hunters they are.

The other thing completely gave your HUSBAND away. The guy Processes deer. More than likely - he does it for CUSTOMERS. Most guys are looking for Jerky. But when you tell them that you have to use their STEAKS to make Jerky. They get mad. So what some deer processors do is to get extra deer. And then sell deer Jerky.

In Pennsylvania right now, they allow you to shoot as many as 3 deer - with the proper tags. But they also imposed ANTLER restrictions.
The only people that can harvest small bucks - are the juvenile hunters.

They were the ones that suffered the most from slob hunters. Because they hunted their hearts out and didn't have the same success as others that were more experienced.

Maybe if your husband had some morals - he would have passed up them little bucks and concentrated on the real trophys.

If I was you - I would turn him in. Maybe a year or two - without a license will teach him a lesson. Not to mention the guy that is getting rich processing deer.

Ps. they sometimes take his gun and his truck. Just a lil something for you to think about - the next time he goes out hunting.

[hitnmiss]

i just finished up my 2nd year hunting and i know alot about hunting and i also dont know alot but i do know this your husband is POACHING.
today was my final day hunting (nov. 24th) and me and my dad had just arrived in the woods we pulled up to a dead end parked the car and got out to walk and as we get out there are at least 7 sets of deer ribs in a pile on the side of our car and this made me mad; this is my second year and im having trouble finding deer to get a shot at and i find this and it upsets me. so we go on our way and about 11:30 we run into another couple of hunters on a youth hunt and we get to chattin and they told us that earlier they had seen a doe and the started shooting and they said they shot it 5 times and looked for it all morning and couldnt find it so they left it. then they told us they caught up with some more deer and they started shooting at it they said they shot 8 bullets at the deer and missed all 8 shots. what im getting at is that many people have respect for this sport and there are those who dont and go over the limit, poach, fire at everything, waste the deer, and shoot wildly and get people killed and as far as im concerned they all need to lose there license to hunt have there rifles taken from them and frankly be arrested. this is a sport not some time to shoot deer for a friend. i have total respect for those who have respect for the laws, the animals, the hunting areas, and the other hunters. you should warn him that if hes caught there is goin to be he** to pay for it.

[gamester]

I'm from the north and wasn't raised around deer huntig. I, like alot of females, just view it as killing innocent animals in their own habitat, but I can understand the arguments you all make.
Again, thanks to all. I hope this gets to my husbands conscious.

I cuncure with everyone who posted their position about your husband's "ethics" (or lack there of).
So allow me to address you here
My wife is also from the north and used to feel that way about hunting, but she now respects responsible hunters and recognizes the importance of the controled hunt. Here are some thoughts to consider...

The first organized conservation group, ever, was hunters. Thanks to the efforts of responsible hunters, many species that were once endangered are now plentifull enough for "harvest" (ever wonder why we call it that?).

Ask your doctor, if he knows anything about nutrition, he will tell you that wild game is healthier to eat than domestically grown beef, pork and chicken.

Hunting, along with limited seasons and bag limits, helps keep wild animal population "in check" thus reducing home intrusion by wild animals (which are usually sick and injured animals) which can be a health risk, especially to children and the elderly. This also insures that the wildlife population stays strong. The wildlife department constantly monitors wildlife population and sets bag limits and hunting seasons to manage a healthy "balance".

Just imagin if the hundredes of thousands of deer harvested each year weren't. The cost to society in car/deer crashes would be astronomical.

Hunting advances the evolution of the hunted, the strongest, fastest and smartest will elude 95% of the hunters thus constantly improving the evolution of the species.
Domestic animals have no chance at a life and no hope for constant improval of the species, they are pumped full of *, antibiotics, steriods and yes, pesticides. All of which are not healthy for human consumption.

Do you know how veal is raised? You would go to jail for treating your kids that way!

My wife is vegitarian, yet she respects responsible hunting and she doesn't mind cooking it for me.

[mohuntress]

Hi all. I have a question. My husband is a big time deer hunter. He's very good at it and people respect him for it. Being an anti hunter myself i refuse to eat the meat, so when my husband kills a deer, he always has to give it away. This year he has a friend at work that processes them himself and told my husband to give him all he could bag. My husband has now killed 2 (i think, so far) over his limit. But since they're not getting checked in..... you see where i'm going with this??
I just wondered what everyones thoughts were on this?

I must have missed something. Didn't you say that it was you that chooses to be an anti hunter, refusing to eat deer meat? And correct me if I'm wrong, but since your husband is a deer hunter, I'm assuming that he enjoys eating deer meat? If he does, why is he forced to give the deer away just because [/i]you[i] don't like it?

In regard to exceeding harvest limits......I don't go for that at all.

One more thing~~~~ I, like a lot of women, hunt!


Mo

[ginuwinejjh]

Im 24. Ive been hunting since i was 14. Ive been deer hunting for many years now. People should follow the limit. THere is a guy at my work that has already gotten 8 deer this year. And 4 of them just this past gun week. Ive been hunting all these years and spent alot of time and money too. Ive yet to get my first deer. Its not fair to people like me when other people dont follow the limits. I want my first deer so i can get that rush and experience.

[carnivore]

hey dude be patient, I started carrying a firearm deer hunting with my dad and brothers when I was 14 and was always under the misconception that at any time a monster trophy buck was gonna come crashing through the brush or woods and let me know exactly when to be ready so I could make the perfect shot and take my first deer.I didn't kill my first deer until I was 21 yrs. old. now at the age of 43 I don't even know how many deer that i've shot. A couple nice bucks and countless small bucks and does and little ones. Now I'm ok with one deer for the freezer and I'll pass up alot of deer to wait for a wallhanger. This year I only saw 2 deer one monster on opening day and 1 doe during muzzle loader. and i know for a fact that their are a lot of deer in the area. I fouled up the monster and didn't get him, so I was more than happy to have the blackpowder doe. Don't wait for that monster deer to come crashing by to get your attention because it seldom happens that way. Stay on stand or the ground practically motionless and make sure you investigate by eye sight only, every noise until you know exactly what made that noise. Your time's coming and It'll be awesome whether it's a 90 pounder or a 200 pounder. and these other fellas well their times coming also, familiarity breeds neglect meaning the more used they get to breaking the law the more careless they'll get, and all the deer in the state won't be worth it when they get caught GOOD LUCK

[bigbuck]

Turn him in , people like that shouldnt be allowed to hunt at all.

[artjaggard]

It sounds like there is a lot of ethical confusion in your family. You might try the book, "The ethics of bow hunting for deer". Educating your husband might be better than just runing him in. And it might help you to appreciate the higher moral plane that ethical hunters live in.

[LibertyRoadOutlaw]

The Outlaw's thoughts on it are this:

He should divorce you and find a woman that won't give him a hard time about hunting and eating what he kills. Send your butt back up North where you can hang out in an oxygen bar, sipping a latte`, discussing the atrocities of hunting with your other hippy tree hugging friends.


I don't agree with him shooting over his limit, but I find it far more offensive that his wife would talk about him behind his back and stir up a hornets nest with other hunters. I guess I can just chalk you up as another anti-hunter I don't like.............heck, I don't think I've met one that I've ever been fond of. I wouldn't doubt if the whole story is made up and you have nothing better to do than swing by a hunting forum and cause trouble.

[progers]

OK?!?

[carnivore]

someone should close this forum so it doesn't get ignorant!!!

[KwackWacker]

It's already come pretty darn close to it.

[DocHolladay]

ok outlaw, would you want anyone to talk to your wife or girlfriend like that? didnt think so! maybe none of her friends hunt and couldnt give her tha advice she needed so she came here and asked us. that may in turn have caused her to go talk to her husband about it. this forum is here for learning and passing on knowledge and for people to make new friends. not jump someones case and insult them. you need to watch what you say on here. words weigh heavy! by the way, i agree, it is.

[admin]

Thank you Doc. Very well put.

[bambeklr]

WIFE

I think that before you should put your husband out in the open you should atleast know for shure what he has killed and what the bag limits are. It sounds like you are unsure of your ethics as a wife.

[artjaggard]

You know folks,
We won't get anywhere with the non hunting public if we don't find ways to bring them along. If we attack back they just retrench with their sterotypes reinforced. Both Doc and Bambeklr are on to something more constructive. The wife is missing the superior moral thinking of resposnible hunters. It also sounds like the husband is missing some of that as well. What resources are there to help get them on track?

[DocHolladay]

great point art. i would start by going to the states wildlife management or natural resources website and looking up the information(bag limits, dates, etc.). maybe she can try the local hunting/fishing store for a printed copy.

[quigleysharps4570]

Haven't heard anymore out of her since November...would like to of heard the outcome.

[passthrew]

I moved this topic to open forum because I feel the subject matter has nothing to do with whitetail deer hunting. I had a doubt it would last as long as it did, heck more so that it got replies. Usually a topic heading of "ethics" has very little informative conversation. Almost always, the pointless arguing and cat fighting are the result.
This ongoing "whatever" (for lack of a better word) started back in November. I joined a very short time ago. So I feel the need to handle this in a management aspect in my part has come to all I can do.

Stepping in to office sorta speak has now been put to the first act of control. Any topic in any of the three boards I am in government, with a conversation sure to start controversial cross talk or deliberate arguing will be stopped. Disciplinary actions will be the result from this day forward. Membership options will be the usual point of discussion when I inform the owner of my thoughts on anyone fitting the description or conversations branching off into political opinions.
I have very little doubt that any other board will allow similar displays of ignorance when posting. Think before you speak, there are members of all ages aboard.
PT

[progers]

I think that this topic has probably done more good than harm! This is something that we all have to face, the "anti-hunter"! If this has taught us anything, be respectful first! That is one of the values of being an ethical hunter. People have good reason to be anti-hunters, just as we have our reasons for being ethical hunters. I personally know several hunters that has put black marks on all hunters! It is up to us to perserve the "ethical hunting tradition" that we pass on to future generations. Just because the apple tree had a few "bad apples" doesn't give reason to chop down the whole tree!!!

[carnivore]

the wife didn't ask a question about the process or tricks of the trade about how to have a successful deer hunt, but her question did have a lot to do with deer hunting in what she felt was an unethical manner and thought she was inquiring about her concerns to a group of ethical hunters on how something like the stunts her husband was pulling could be solved or viewed from a survey of hunters. I feel that she got a boatload of helpful suggestions and a few not so good suggestions, but for the most i'm sure that she got the message that not all hunters act in the same manner as her husband, which I feel was a successful inquiry for her cause. It's an old post anyway just close it out and start a forum about hunting ethics questions.

[DocHolladay]

good idea. as of now its officially locked.

DocHolladay