subsonic rounds

[florida]

sorry for starting so many new threads, but I like to hear others opinions/knowledge.


I have been looking into subsonic rounds, just a weird fasination I have. Particularly, there are 'wildcat' rounds that fire a very large slug just below the sound barrier, such as the 300 whisper.

SSK has designed a lot of these rounds, and for some reason they have my interest.

anyone have any knowledge or experience with these, or just ballistic observations in general?

[KwackWacker]

Seems to me, those rounds aren't going to be very powerful seeing as how the speed of sound is only around 1100 feet per second. Most of todays rounds are more than twice that fast. That's going to mean a heck of a lot of bullet drop out past 50 yards. I know speed isn't everything when it comes to bullets but, it is a critical factor. With a trajectory like that why not just bow hunt?

[bigtim6656]

i have a ar 15 .223 cal and it travals at 2and half times the speedof sound the speedof sound is more close to 745 milesan hour so that like 2000 miles an hour or so looked it up on msn.com

[progers]

Subsonic is SLOWER than the speed of sound. The speed of sound depends on different factors such as elevation and air temp. The warmer it is, the more speed you will need to achieve the speed of sound.

However, you will loose accuracy with a slower bullet at a futher distance.

Subsonic bullets will create more damage than others because it has more time to mushroom inside the target.

You can create better ballists by using softer or jacketed projectiles just the same and not loose your range.

Really, all you are doing is turning the impact area into "JELLO" using a subsonic round! Less meat to eat!

[win296]

It has been a few years since I really looked in to it, (so keep that in mind) but if memory serves me, I think the 300 Whisper has a pretty flat trajectory and was fairly accurate at a decent range. I believe it was somewhat developed as a mid-range sniper round. I was also interested in it, when I first heard about it 10 years ago. I was seriously thinking about getting it for a Contender. Due to an injury that greatly hampered all of my shooting I had to put it on hold. If I remember correctly it is also supposed to be an impressive round fired from a supressed automatic weapon. I think it was Machine Gun News that did a really good article on it, "way back then". And in it they said that all that you could hear was the bolt and the impact of bullet. I don't remember the yards or grouping, but then again they mainly were shooting it fully auto. It would take some looking but I did have some balistic charts and articles on that round at one time. I have never tried it myself, but did like what I read.

[m21black]

My experiance with the 300 Whisper in the subsonic mode and deer hunting is very limited to a TC with a SSK barrel and 240 Grain Sierra HPBT bullets. To say that the Whisper make jello out of the meat is silly and clearly the person who wrote it is speaking from wishfull thinking.

With the proper twist rate the Whisper can stabilize a 240 grain head... 1:8 or faster, on impact the bullet yawl causes the projectile to tumble. To say it makes jello is not the case, the exit wounds that I have witnessed indicate a butcher knife like exit wound. I have shot deer with 22 long rifles, 22 hornets, 218 bees, 223 remingtons, 243 winchesters, 25-05 remingtons, 270 winchester, 7x57 mausers, 300 wsm, 308 winchesters need go on. I know what jello is... the Whisper doesn't make jello but with a can and proper marksmanship it is a great deer rifle.

[m21black]

Regarding accuracy, the 300 whisper I have easliy shoots moa at 100 yards. I only shot it once at 200 yards and was able to get a 2.5" group off. I know the bullet dropped over 32 inches with a 100 yard zero but anyone who knows how to shot can make the adjustments. With a good bolt gun I would bet a Whisper will shot moa beyond 300 yards but like most rifles it more a function of the operator and the reloader than the rifle.
The Whisper's not a flat shooter like a 2506 but check out what the velocity and energy of a 240 grain bullet does at 400 yards,
1050 FPS at the muzzle = 590 ftlbs of energy
941 FPS at 400 yards = 471 ftlbs of energy.
As you can see it is a very efficent cartridge.

[DocHolladay]

I dont know if I would shoot a deer at 400yds. with 471ft.lbs of energy. I am sure it could do the job, but I just wouldnt feel comfortable with it. I bet it would do a great job on coyotes and varmints though. Could you get higher velocities with a 180gr. round?

[KwackWacker]

Anything past roughly 1100 fps is breaking the sound barrier. No more whisper then.

[progers]

faster = more accurate = less

[m21black]

I didn't say I'd be shoting deer at 400 yards with the Whisper, but at moderate yards of 50-150 yards is in the realm. I just mentioned 400 yrads to show how efficent the Whisper is, can you name another cartridge that only looses 100 FPS in 400 yards. If any one is interested I have loaded the Whisper with 125 grain heads to 2400 FPS and have heard that velocities with 150 grainers are similar. It will drive 180 grainers some where around 1800 but when you start using lighter and shorter bullets they tend not to destabilize/tumble.

If your willing to use a 357 magnum or 44 magnum for deer hunting the 300 Whisper is worth a consideration.

[quigleysharps4570]

Would be an interesting little cartridge in a single shot with a globe front and vernier rear I'm thinking.

[DocHolladay]

I know that if you made it go faster you would eventually break the sound barrier and then it wouldnt be a whisper, I was just asking if it could be done.

I also didnt say you would shoot an animal at 400 yards with this round. It is just on the low side of pushing it for velocity to kill an animal. I dont think it takes alot to kill one, but some states have a minimum velocity that the go off of when choosing what rounds to allow. The smalet caliber in TN is .24. Form what I hear, the DNRs and the like want a minimum of 800ft.lbs of energy.

[m21black]

In CT the requirement for a rifle is .243 and larger, we have now min. energy requirement.

For more power and velocity, I have been working a 125 grain load. I am right around 2400 FPS. Accuracy so far isn't where I want it. 1.25-1.50" groups at 100yards. I have been told that you can drive the 125 grain heads to velocities a greater than 2600 FPS. Of course that is with a rifle with a loner barrel. I'm using a 16 1/4" barrel with a suppressor.

Don't underestimate the versitility of the Whisper. I have killed deer and spoken to others who have killed deer with the 240 grain subsonic load. Not much trama but big exit wounds due to yawl.

[Guest]

Most subsonic rounds have a specific use.When I was in the Army my team used subsonic 22 rounds.They were used attached to a Colt Woodsman semi auto with a Gem Tek suppressor.Subsonics are great for times when you need to be very quiet and close to bad guys to "dispose"of a specific target.Nuff said.